Intro & Presentation
Lennart:
And I'd say, if I were coming in from the outside, I'd only get one, but we get a lot more. I think we've had three or four inquiries this month.
Ludger:
Strong, yes, I didn't expect that to happen. You have to deal with that first. We're already very strong either way. We have a lot of things and you have to be a little prepared for the fact that Wums is coming from you guys now, right?
Ludger:
Well, I'm Ludger Ernesti. I'm 47 years old and come from beautiful Waltrop on the edge of the Ruhr area.
Lennart:
Okay. And what do you do?
Ludger:
I work in the real estate industry. We are a somewhat larger property management company, with around 2,000 units, which is quite large for our region, and we are also a real estate agency. I have nine employees, or rather, our team consists of nine people. We have two in-house craftsmen and an accounting department. I'd say we're a family business, but my daughter is also a real estate agent, my son is training to be a real estate agent, and my wife does the bookkeeping, so we're all here, right?
Lennart:
Impressive. And how much do you still do yourself?
Ludger:
Yes, it's getting harder and harder for me. I'm no longer the one who sits at a desk all day; instead, I have to put out fires, go from viewing to viewing, and spend a lot of time on the phone. So I spend an awful lot of time on my cell phone, and I'm glad I have a team I can rely on to, let's say, keep everything running smoothly behind the scenes, right?
Lennart:
So that means you're really getting stuck in, both in property management and in the real estate business.
Ludger:
Yes, I'd say real estate is naturally at the forefront, together with Mika. That's our main focus. And in property management, it's more about making decisions and keeping in touch with the owners. But I'd say we have complete professionals down here to take care of that, right?
Lennart:
When you say full-time professionals down here, how many of you are there?
Ludger:
There are nine of us in total.
Lennart:
And they're all permanent employees?
Ludger:
All permanent employees. We'll probably expand a little more at the turn of the year. I want to take on a little more of the condominium owners' association. I still have to do that, i.e., the meetings. And we'll probably expand our office space by another 60 m² and bring in another dedicated WEG administrator.
Starting point at Ernesti Immobilien
Lennart:
Before you met us, did you already have a website?
Ludger:
Yes, I had one before, right?
Lennart:
What was the initial situation? Tell me about it.
Ludger:
Well, let's say our first website had been stagnant for 5, 6, 8 years. It was just there. And I'd say that was fine at the beginning. But of course, you want to see some change. So we made a second one, then a third—but we never experienced a website that brought us, let's say, external inquiries or that anything happened. Simply that you notice a reaction from the whole thing.
Lennart:
So I'm kind of anticipating the whole thing now—but that's what happened?
Ludger:
Yes, of course. So, let me start at the beginning: Of course, everything takes a little time; you can't go from 0 to 100. But we simply noticed that we were being contacted from outside. And we used to have— let's say—75% referral business. We still have that. But we're noticing that we're simply being contacted from outside and we're getting a foot in the door, perhaps in regions that aren't ours or where there wasn't a referral. And people are contacting us, right?
Lennart:
Before you started working with us, were there specific problems with the other websites? What was the reason you weren't satisfied with them?
Ludger:
Well, let me put it this way: Normally—in our public image, in our advertising—I'm very clearly focused on being very simple. Just: Real estate? Ernesti! We have big advertising signs. And in the past, I was actually of the opinion that our homepage should clearly reflect that at first glance. But let me tell you, when you've been doing that for 10 or 12 years and you realize that you're not getting any response—except on Facebook, Instagram, and all that—that there's a bit of a response there, then you have to ask yourself: What do you do? And then I saw you guys, right?
Why Ynfinite?
Lennart:
How did you even get to know us? I mean, how did you become aware of us?
Ludger:
Well, I like to watch old foxes from the scene, so to speak. Brokers. There's someone I liked even before I started my own business. And I always thought their public image was pretty good. And then, by chance, I saw that you were doing the show. And at exactly the same time, I saw something from you—on Instagram, I think. And that was the initial spark that made me contact you. And then you had that conversation with me.
Lennart:
I still remember that—we were sitting in a Zoom call, so to speak. What was the point that made you say, "This is it"?
Ludger:
I would say it was because you understood immediately what I wanted, right? I didn't want what everyone else had. And I think you gave me that right away. And I liked that, right?
Lennart:
Nice. So: individuality on the website.
Ludger:
And I'd say: The big problem is – sure, there are great website designs. I'd say the last one was good too – that's not a criticism at all. But you knew right away what you had to do for each trade. And that was our huge advantage.
Lennart:
Great, okay, I'm definitely happy about that. How did the process work? You were only on the call with me—what happened after that?
Ludger:
Yes, I have to be honest—I'll have to ask my son about that, because he takes care of a lot of the administrative stuff for me. Well, let me put it this way: first we had to know what we wanted. We had to tell you a lot about ourselves first—and that's what we did. But we also just went through everything on our cell phones and told you what we... I wouldn't say we're a disastrous team, but we are a young team that likes to jump ahead. And I think we actually showed you our team first. And then it went step by step. The administration and so on—I'd say my son did everything with you, I think. In any case, he did it with you. And I'd say it went really quickly. Then we did another photo session here. And we just sent you some input from us—how we are—and what we want. And you had the technical capabilities and were able to give us a boost, right?
Technical implementation & working with Ynfinite
Lennart:
Is there anything about the Ynfinite system that you think is really cool, or that your son tells you is really cool?
Ludger:
Well, what I think is really cool – what I said at the beginning: that I wanted to have a clear setup, basically just a very simple homepage. I've moved away from that. People who visit our homepage don't leave it so quickly anymore, because you can see the properties for sale, you can see the properties under management, you can see a really wide range. You can get information, you can see news—and that's not the kind of homepage I've always had for my outdoor advertising at first glance. You can just... yes, you can look around, browse—and you don't leave the site so quickly, right?
Lennart:
Yes.
Ludger:
And that's when I learned: Okay, it's exactly the opposite. Not on the street with advertising, where you drive past and see it at first glance – you can just spend time there.
The new daily routine with Ynfinite
Lennart:
Has anything changed for you since you redesigned the website?
Ludger:
Yes, we're getting inquiries, of course, right? I'd say it's clearer. I'd say if you look at the numbers on Google from time to time—everything has gone up extremely, right?
Lennart:
And for you in the office—the administrative work involved in the website—how much do you have to do?
Ludger:
Yes, that's hard to say again, but I think if you have something or, let's say, if something needs to be changed, then you can get it done on demand and that's it, right? So, there's no big bureaucracy. And I'd say that's it: we like working with you simply because it's uncomplicated, right?
Lennart:
Mhm.
Ludger:
And I don't want to send you a long letter or anything like that. There's a call – and it works, right? So that's my experience with you guys.
Lennart:
And do you feel like it involves a lot of administrative work or that you have to spend a lot of time on the website?
Ludger:
Not at all. Not at all.
Ludger:
Okay. So, there are still things that you might already be offering us that we haven't quite gotten around to yet—but those are just things, or they're at a very high level. Because from my point of view, the website is totally perfect, but I know you offer a little bit more. And we've decided not to schedule any appointments on Fridays so that we can discuss things like this and simply—let's say—draw on your wealth of knowledge. It's not much. We just need to let you know. But sometimes it's just easier—very positive and simple, right?
Measurable successes and results
Lennart:
Are there any measurable successes? You just mentioned that the Google numbers have gone up.
Ludger:
Maybe my team needs to correct me, not me, but I mean, 35-40% in the first two weeks was easy to see, I'd say, from the Google reports, right away, right?
Lennart:
Yes.
Ludger:
And I'd say, the whole thing... you know better. It has to settle in a bit, right?
Lennart:
Yes.
Ludger:
And yes—positive signs in the long run, right?
Lennart:
How long have you been using our system now?
Ludger:
Half a year, three quarters of a year, I think, right? We moved here—I'd say this is our second location... or we already had our office here on the church square before.
Lennart:
Yes.
Ludger:
And I think we've been here for a good year now—and since then we've also had the website.
Lennart:
Yes. Have you gotten any feedback on the new site from your team or from employees?
Ludger:
Very positive, right? Well, I always say: Of course, anyone who looks us up is interested in real estate anyway – and they just open a book with us where they can keep looking. I think there are fewer people here in our area who have 60 properties online – from sales to management. Then we have a garage, then we have an apartment building, then we have something behind Mannheim – and here and there – or even in Friesland. It's just very diverse, right? And that's good.
Lennart:
How is that for your colleagues, for your employees? Do they somehow... have they noticed it positively, or have they now said, "Oh, not another change"?
Ludger:
No, no, no, no. They've been very positive about the website—also about the photos and stuff we've included. So, they're right behind it—and they like it, right?
Lennart:
Good.
Ludger:
It's not a run-of-the-mill site. And I think we're an established company – and I think it's a great way to present ourselves, right?
ROI & Pricing
Lennart:
Have you ever calculated a specific ROI? How much does it pay off? So first of all, maybe the price in general—do you still have a rough idea of how much it cost you back then and how fair did you think it was?
Ludger:
No, I have no idea how much it cost me. That's how it is in my life... Money is just a number. And I simply need something like this. I need guys like you – I simply need you to get ahead. And if I pay attention to whether it cost 2, 5, 7, or 8,000—I want a family business that I can pass on to my children. Either I have good things—and saving twice is still too expensive, right?
Ludger:
Well, I have no idea what we paid for it – but I know for sure that it didn't break the bank, right?
Lennart:
Well, if I remember correctly, without having checked, it's about $4,500 in one-time setup costs, and then you pay a monthly fee for it.
Lennart:
Would you say it's worth it for you?
Ludger:
Well, I've noticed that referral business is really, really strong for us. Sometimes we get new business from a single sale. And then we get, let's say, three or four more sales from a single contact that has developed. Then they want to sell something again, so they buy something new.
Ludger:
And let me say, if I were to get just one from outside... but we get a lot more. This month, I think we've had three or four inquiries that I didn't expect at all. You have to deal with that first. We're already very strong either way, we have a lot of things—and you have to be a little prepared for the fact that Wums is coming from you guys now, right?
Recommendation & perspective
Lennart:
If you had a real estate agent colleague and they asked you, "How satisfied are you?" – would you recommend us?
Ludger:
If they're not from Waltrop, then yes, okay.
Lennart:
So you're afraid that he...
Ludger:
Sure. Of course. What do you want to do? Anyone can visit your site... everyone is free. Of course, I think your unique selling point is still pretty cool at the moment – but of course I'll recommend you to others. You have to recommend good things, right?
Future plans
Lennart:
Do you have any plans for the future where you say to yourself: Hey, when the next few months and years roll around, I want to do this and that with my website? Or is there something else I'd like to do online?
Ludger:
Well, of course I want to keep up with the times, and you guys are giving us the initial spark. And I know that when you get new tools or anything else, we'll just talk about it. And I trust you to take us along with you. And that's how it is, right?
Lennart:
Yes.
Ludger:
Yes. And what should I tell you now, what would I like to have? You're a total pro in that area. You'll tell me what happens, right?
Social media
Lennart:
Is social media something you've been actively involved in or would like to be actively involved in? What's the current situation with you?
Ludger:
Well, we are already actively involved. We are very, very careful about what we post. I think this is the first time I've been in front of the camera. We're actually the kind of people who come in a little from behind—but then with very clear statements: Here, sell it, get into marketing, and so on. We don't want to have too many bells and whistles in there.
Ludger:
Yes, some people who see this now might think, "Why do you post every day?" Well, because we simply have a lot, a lot, right? And we often sit with notaries, often taking on new clients – and those are things you can easily post on the platforms. I think in the last two weeks, our craftsman has done the gardens at three properties for sale. These are just things I like to post, to show that our service is there. Let's say owners can't keep up—yes, we clear everything out, it's a service. And you can post something like that because it simply adds value. If you have two of your own craftsmen who are fully equipped—the owner isn't too keen on presenting the garden like that—then I send two of my people in for a day. And those are the kinds of things you have to post sometimes.
Lennart:
Do you already actively use this in combination with Ynfinite – that Ynfinite automatically posts to your social media for you?
Ludger:
I don't think so yet. I think there's still room for improvement there.
Lennart:
Yes.
Ludger:
But I'm also cautious. I don't want to burn out the person who does everything for us here. We'll just have to see how it goes. I'm glad he's doing it—and he's super, super skeptical and does it really well. But that's definitely something we can still incorporate, or incorporate more, right?
Lennart:
Okay, all right. Great. You have to have potential. Always, always. That's really important. But hey—thank you so much for the great feedback. So, I'm really happy to hear all that. Because at the end of the day, we didn't rehearse the questions. So I'm just grateful that you're talking about it so positively, honestly. Really, really cool.
Ludger:
Well, we enjoy it—just being with you guys, right?
Lennart:
Great. I'm glad to hear that. Wonderful. Ludger, thank you very much. And then I would say: Have a great, successful rest of the week!